I’ve decided to engage in a little experiment. Depending on the results, it could change the way that my five year-old son and I survive the summer together. Luke likes to do things and, unlike his younger brother, he prefers to do things with someone else. Given the fact that Mommy and Daddy are more in tune with his ever-increasing skill level, Luke usually turns to us to play catch, go to the baseball diamond, take a spin on the bike, and the like.
Unfortunately, other activities and commitments don’t always allow us to respond immediately to his desires and this is where things tend to become contentious. Instead of accepting our condolences when we’re not able to engage with him in the way he desires, he will often get teary, whiny and insistent that we change our mind. In other words, he will try to wear us down with emotional persistence.
This morning, Luke and I had a conversation about this and, while he recognizes what he is doing, he really hasn’t been given any alternative strategies to use. I proposed one during our discussion.
I explained to him that Mommy and Daddy do our best to spend time with him, but that isn’t always possible. Sometimes we are busy with other things; sometimes might just be tired! So, beginning today Luke would still be welcome to ask and, if he was unsatisfied with the answer he received, he would be allowed the right to one appeal!
“Like a banana peel, Daddy?”
“No, more like an appeal to first base.”
“Oh, when the umpire asks for help with a strike.”
“Yes, kind of like that.”
I told him that if he didn’t like the answer he received he could come up with a new idea or alternative. Mommy and Daddy could then decide whether or not to accept the appeal.
Here’s the example I used.
“Suppose you asked Daddy to go to Dairy Queen, but Daddy said that we wouldn’t have time because we were leaving soon to go to Nana and Papa’s. Instead of whining or crying, what’s one thing that you could suggest?
He thought for a moment.
“I could say, ‘Let’s call Nana and Papa and tell them we’ll be late.”
“Ok,” I said, “But then you wouldn’t have time to swim.”
“You’re right…hmmm…I know!” he exclaimed, “We could leave earlier and stop off at Dairy Queen on the way.”
“Now, that could work,” I said.
So, those of you who are much more experienced than I at this parenting thing might be rolling your eyes and wondering why I wouldn’t just say, “No means no.”
Two reasons come to mind. First, my own father almost always said no, often before we had a chance to ask the question. Eventually, we just assumed the answer would be no and stopped asking. Second, I really want to teach my kids that they have the ability to think about things, solve problems, and come up with alternative solutions.
So, other than not having the patience for dealing with whiny kids, the combination of voice and mind are my two real motivators.
I’ll keep you posted. I’d also love to hear about the way that you nurtured your own children in this regard!
Great post–I like the idea. We find ourselves, particularly during those roller coaster growth spurts, saying NO or correcting a lot. In response to that, we tried having “say yes days” where we would do everything we could to get to yes with our then 2 year old. It involves some planning as well as a good night’s sleep and an open schedule. A tight schedule for us both required a pretty strict response to a lot of things and we didn’t like it. In many ways, it was about us making necessary changes more than our daughter because some of the things she wanted were reasonable outside of our schedule.
These days, we try hard to maintain the flexibility required to say yes when the requests are reasonable. Already, she is becoming adept at making decisions. Yesterday after an extra long nap she still wanted to attend a friend’s birthday party. We agreed to go for a short time with no complaints when it was time to leave. She decided that was better than missing it and she did great.
As an EdPsy guy with neuro interests, I cannot pretend that this is wholly or large-partly our doing but we’re doing what we can. We want her to get a sense that she has options and freedoms not restrictions and blockades.
Thanks for sharing this
On the basis of 16+ years experience with my own active, argumentative son, your likely to find that your own little guy is very persuasive. Enjoy the ride!
Thanks for the comment Juliann! I wouldn’t mind if he became persuasive, but I hope that his “tactics” improve to the status of “not very irritating”!
My kids are 14, 11 and 7 this year. And I’m not rolling my eyes!
Though less consciously, my parenting approach has developed along the same lines as you’re choosing here.
One of the biggest things I changed (and wanted my kids to learn) is that other people have needs too – even parents! Too often, parents (and particularly mothers) are prone to doing what kids need but not considering or articulating what they need. Or, the flip side is parents just saying NO (like you mention your Dad doing) because it’s inconvenient – and, in effect, always putting their own needs first.
Both extremes are unhealthy, in my opinion.
So I haven’t made it a “one appeal” rule – but I open the conversation with my kids. I work hard to be clear about what my needs/wants are and at allowing/coaching them to understanding what their needs/wants are as well. And then we can possibly find solutions. Sometimes, that’s an “in the moment” conversations, sometimes that’s “proactive” and discussing approaches/processes (like your discussion with your son).
I’m also very clear when I just can’t handle something. ie “I’m sorry – I’m having a hard day and I can’t handle going out tonight. Please let’s find something quiet and cuddly to do tonight, then we can go out another time.” (yeah, my introvert overwhelms me at times!) That could result in my kids going out without me (to a friend’s house) or even having one friend over to play in their room. Or we just watch a movie and make ice cream sundaes at home.
My point is to teach/model how to 1) be aware of and articulate our own needs; 2) be creative/open about how those needs can be met, collectively and respectful of others; 3) be honest about WHY we need/want what we’re asking for; and 4) be compassionate, caring and respectful of myself AND others – and show it in our thoughts, words and deeds.
Sometimes, that still results in me saying “no means no.” That just isn’t my default response.
Because I believe the problem isn’t in the response (whatever that might be), the problem is in the “default” behavior – doing what I’ve always done, or what my parents did, or what I think I “should” do.
In my opinion, the best thing we can model to our children is a conscious and caring process – questioning what we do and why? Being open to feedback. Listening. Considering.
What that looks like, on different days, or at different ages, is still evolving, for sure! This whole “teen years” is still new… #feelingmywaythrough
It’s good to talk about it – thanks for your post. It made me think about what I’m doing!
I appreciate the experience and insight that is threaded into your response. I’m still a little green and idealistic, and its great to hear the voices of those who have been there…more than once!
I think that your comments about kids understanding that parents have needs (and wants) as well is so important. I don’t think that 5 years-old is too young to start talking about this.
Your approach is really all about being sensitive to each other.
Teen years seem like such a long way off at this point…I’ve printed off your response and have put it in my “advice” folder!
I’m a father and high-school teacher. I personally take the ‘no means no’ approach, but I think about it first. it is very easy to react with a No answer without really thinking about it.
Is it really important? Does it really inconvenience me? Does it mean a lot to my child? When I think about these first I find I often say Yes anyway.
This also helps when No is a safety issue. There’s no appeals about running across the road, even if it is to the ice-cream store.
However, the reason I chose to comment is because as I teacher I am going insane from a group of year 7’s who believe in their right to appeal every decision. It seems as though they have never come across the ‘no means no’ and whether it’s safety, manners or homework they argue with us teachers over anything that doesn’t suit them.
It’s something parents need to be aware of.
Great comment! Thank you, in particular, for your reminder about the importance of considering and thinking about our responses. You’re right; if we step back and think about the request and the context, the situation becomes much clearer!
I also agree that there are some areas where there should be no appeal whatsoever. Safety is one of those…as are manners and the way that we treat others.
My response is from the teen years. I was a single parent and found that my children wanted really expensive items: clothing & technology that I could not afford. One of the things that makes kids aware of poverty is not having choices. I came up with a plan. The small amount of money I had for clothing/equipment for my two children would be given to them to manage with some support around how to budget and how to set up a bank account for saving money. I let them decide what they would spend their money on but when it was spent, there would be no more. My son bought his much loved, really expensive jeans which meant he only had 2 pair of jeans: one expensive pair and one other. He wore the expensive pair most of the time and felt good that he fit in. And yes, we had many conversations about his inner value as a human being but I respected his need to have the “right” jeans. My daughter was more into shoes. She got what she wanted but she had to sacrifice in another area as well.
They augmented their budgets with babysitting and any odd jobs they could fit in around school, activities and household responsibilities. They received no money at all for doing the work at home. That was what they gave to us as a family.
We also had 2 lists on the fridge: Needs and Wants. We would discuss what went on which list and this was for items that were not covered by their budgets. Many interesting discussions were had. Some of the time they were able to convince me that something I thought was a want was actually a need. Summer trips to see their relatives was one of those items. We saved all year for these visits.
My kids are adults now. They have strong work ethics that sometimes amaze their hard-working mother. They manage money well. But the discussion that made me cry recently was when they said that they were never poor growing up. I had picked cans for bread and milk when things were really tough but they saw their lives as being rich in everything that counted. Amazing what choice and respect for their right to appeal their point of view will do to empower a child to see the world in a positive way.
Catherine, thank you so much for your story. I’m not going to step on it. I’m just going to let it speak!
You are welcome. Glad I discovered your blog – love it!
How language has change in a few short years – I would never had thought of the word appeal to described the daily going concerns with children, but it does fit in 2012. Perhaps the term appeal should spread among the parenting gurus of note, because being ‘best friends’ with their children, is not the answer, or the best interests of their children. It just leads to the scenarios of a group of year 7 students, appealing every decision that a teacher makes in his or her classroom, as Oberon has described in his post.
That said, my father was a typical father of his era, and no meant no, unless his children could convince him, using sensible logical arguments that was founded on solutions that satisfies all parties. What can I say, my father was a union man who went to the school of hard knocks, to negotiate in an atmosphere where a dead rat might be greeting him, when he open his lunch box. He soon learned, purchasing a lock prevented dead rats from entering his lunch box, and earning a bit of respect from the other side, who always said no, without an explanation.
Over the years, raising children since the 70s’, I more or less copied the same parenting style of my father, when faced with completing and opposite pulls of children and parents. Stephen, I believed that you are teaching your children the gift of navigating in this rather scary and yet rapidly evolving world, where ‘thinking on your feet’ skills is a desired skill to have as an adult. I know educators call it different names, but I always saw it as thinking on your feet, or the other saying, “when the going gets tough, the tough get going. In Wikipedia, ” Taken together, the meaning of the phrase is “When the situation becomes difficult, the strong will work harder to meet the challenge.” http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/When_the_Going_Gets_Tough,_the_Tough_Get_Going
In my eyes, children need to be taught the skills of appeal, as Stephen, Dr. Timony, Julianne, Heidi, Oberon, and Catherine has shown that best fits their family and their needs. As Julianne has stated, enjoy the ride because the kids will eventually become very persuasive adults, appealing to the naysayers in their lives who have a degree of authority over them. without becoming unduly argumentative in their stances, or in the case of children, become whiny and tearful when face with the word ‘no’.
With my youngest child, the one with all the challenges in language, she has always amazed me of her ability to think on her feet, from early on. In Stephen’s example, ” “I could say, ‘Let’s call Nana and Papa and tell them we’ll be late.”
“Ok,” I said, “But then you wouldn’t have time to swim.”
“You’re right…hmmm…I know!” he exclaimed, “We could leave earlier and stop off at Dairy Queen on the way.”
“Now, that could work,” I said.” – except in my case, my youngest child who was 4 years old, 30 seconds later after hearing the world no, came back and said “We could leave early”. I turned my no into a yes, and was amazed why I did not think of the solution, but even more amaze my youngest child, knew the concept of time, and it was confirmation as a parent she was indeed a bright child, despite her language difficulties. Today, she is now 17 years old, and is indeed a very persuasive 17 year old, especially when she rises to the challenge by working harder in her school work, providing the ‘nos’ issued by the educators make sense to her. And when the ‘nos’ do not make sense, her ‘thinking on her feet’ skills kicks in, to turned the ‘no’ into a ‘yes’. By the way she despises the actions of other students in her class, who have never heard the word ‘no’ in their lives, including objecting to the zeroes on answered questions of tests. Meanwhile, my 17 year old, is busy going through the test or quiz with a fine-tooth comb, ensuring the grade given is the correct grade, and often found the teacher graded a zero, when it should have been a 1. And then she will rise, informing the teacher of the mistake in grading without using accusations, and the teacher will kindly raise her grade, unlike her counterparts, who is threatening to bring their parents to argue their case.
The skills can be taught, but first parents have to act as parents, and not their best buddies. Nor the other parenting style of always saying no, without an explanation, because that never allows the child the flexibility to counter the no, with reasonable thought, based on their own knowledge and the new knowledge of the explanation.
Just my thoughts Stephen, but as a parent my aspirations are lower on the totem pole, and that is a successful parent has managed to raise their kids into adults, without becoming a druggie or an alcoholic or sitting in some jail. As I have observed, each decade has become a mine field for parents and the raising of children, and more so for the beginning of the 21st century. I don’t envy parents just starting out, because there is so much to learn, information coming at parents on a 360 degree axis, and becomes difficult to make wise parenting decisions, and it is so much easier to cave in and say yes.